Embracing Life's Prickly Edges

Unlock the secrets of thriving in the face of change with the guidance of Amy C. Horner, an executive and CPA whose innovative approach will change your perspective on personal and professional transitions. Our conversation with Amy unravels the art of "Hugging the Porcupine," a strategy for embracing the prickly edges of change without getting hurt. She illustrates her point with William Bucket's attitude from "Willy Wonka," showing us the power of positivity when the unexpected comes knocking. We peel back the psychological layers of change, from the fight or flight response to strategies that arm us against the fear of the unknown.

We love to hear from you about the challenges and changes you are navigating, or any other thoughts, insights, question or celebrations you'd like to share!

Be in touch!
kat@koppett.com
john@johnregister.com

Transcript

John Register: If you've ever wondered what it takes to achieve remarkable success, to overcome obstacles and transform your performance in the face of big change, you're in the right place. 

Kat Koppett: Welcome to Performance Shift, the podcast that will take you on a journey of discovery, exploration and transformation and give you the tools to navigate your own moments of change. 

John Register: I'm John Register, a two-time Paralympic athlete and Combat Army veteran and author. 

Kat Koppett: And I'm Kat Koppett, an organizational consultant, author and improviser. 

John Register: Together, we're going to be sharing our expertise and insights into how we can navigate change and find success in the face of adversity. 

Kat Koppett: You are here with us live, potentially in this moment we are also up on Apple, Google and most places where you can catch your podcasts. Just go there, download episodes whenever you feel like it. 

John Register: If you have a friend you know, you have enjoyed these podcasts and these episodes. Please share them with a friend. Hit the notification bell and make sure that you're always in with us, because we're having some great conversations. We have a fantastic guest today, and so let's just jump on in, Kat. 

Kat Koppett: All right, let's do it. Who have we got, John? 

John Register: Oh, all right. Okay, I love this, she's, she's amazing and I can't wait for everybody to meet her. So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my immense pleasure to introduce you to our podcast guest today. She is a CPA, MBA and executive of Repute. Her career is a testament to her unparalleled dedication to strategic collaboration, celebrating change and seizing the myriad of opportunities that spring from a fluid environment. We met at the CPAs of greater Washington DC. I am definitely not a CPA because I am, as we were talking about earlier, I'm a creative. I'm very creative when it comes to CPA. I do a lot of creative stuff. 

Kat Koppett: You can get in trouble doing that. You gotta be careful. 

John Register: I get in trouble doing that, and I founded the Energetic, smart, funny and just a doer. Many people talk about goals and dreams and aspirations, but folks just find it difficult to take action, I find, and even sometimes myself. So please welcome. As a founding member of CHIEF, a Private Network of Women's Leaders, Amy's journey of continuous learning and mentorship continues to inspire many. So please welcome to the performance shift, the amazing Amy C. Horner. 

Amy Horner: Good morning, again.

John Register: Good morning. Good morning, you know, one of the things where we're both a Kat and I were looking. I'm just gonna jump right into the chase because we looked at your, we're reading your bio through and I didn't even know this. So we've been, you know, kind of hanging out, been down there in North Carolina with you and your family, beautiful family. This, like these speaking engagements that you have, one is entitled, what is entitled Hug the porcupine how to embrace change without injury. That is intriguing. I want to start right there and just dive in and find out. What does that mean? What does, you know, because I don't, I don't necessarily want to hug porcupines, but tell us.

Amy Horner: And I like that because a lot of people don't necessarily want to embrace change. I think that people, most people, I have found that when change comes at them they do look at it like something that's going to injure them somewhat, like a porcupine, and so that visual really came from, you can embrace this and it won't injure you if you do it the right way. I think we all know if we poke the porcupine, if we are not kind to the porcupine, the porcupine has the opportunity to create some damage to our physical and mental well-being. But if we can be kind to the porcupine and embrace that cute little animal and really turn it into a relationship that we enjoy, then change isn't that difficult and scary. I've never come across a porcupine in the wild. I'm assuming it's somewhat terrifying. Fight or flight probably really kicks in, and when faced with change I mean, Kat, I'm sure you know this fight or flight kicks in for some people. 

Kat Koppett: I think for all of us in some kinds of change. I mean, you know, our listeners know I'm a professional improviser, right, it's my job to embrace the unknown and change. But in real life there are plenty of things that you know, plenty of kinds of change that are really scary. We talk sometimes here about change that you seek, like maybe you want a new job or you're buying a new house or you're going on vacation somewhere, or change that's thrust upon you. I'm curious do you feel like those kinds of, like the how the change comes around matters to this? 

Amy Horner: Absolutely. I, from my viewpoint, I see change in two flavors: the change you seek out and create for yourself or for whomever the group of yourself is, your team, your organization, your family. And then I see reactive change, right, change that is happening around you, that you may or may not have any control of, that you are acting in reaction to and I think we are all familiar with the phrase life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. And when I speak on that particular type of change, I have a movie character that I like to refer to. That movie character is from the Willy Wonka movie and it's the version with Johnny Depp, and in that movie we all know who Charlie is, Right? Charlie is the cute little kid who somehow finds a dollar and gets his golden ticket. But there are other characters in this movie supporting characters, and one of them is Charlie's dad and Charlie's dad's name his characters name is William Bucket. When we first meet William Bucket, he is a worker in a toothpaste factory and it is his job to screw the toothpaste caps on the toothpaste tubes. Not a very technical job and something that he doesn't really seem to enjoy. His boss is always looking over his shoulder and it just seems that he's, you know he's a doer, but he's not really thinking about what he's doing. And at some point we see Charlie's dad receive a pink slip, and if you don't know what a pink slip is, it means he was involuntarily terminated, aka he was fired. And Charlie's dad is very upset because this is a change he couldn't control. He didn't see coming and now it has really impacted him. We see Charlie's dad later in the movie. He has taken seemingly some sort of vocational training and he is now the person that comes in and fixes the machine that replaced him. Remember there was a machine that replaced him, screwing the caps on the toothpaste tubes, and when it breaks he's now the hero and he's a solutions architect instead of just a cog in the wheel of doing. And so that's a great story of reactive change and overcoming that. We have someone on this call who has had to react to a change outside of his control. But that's such a visual of how we can positively react to something instead of really letting it get us down. 

John Register: Yeah, I never saw that in that, but I don't know if I've seen the Johnny. I think I saw the Johnny Depp one once. 

Kat Koppett: Yeah, it's not in the books or the other movies, it's it. 

Amy Horner: William Bucket is not a character in the books or the movies. He was created solely for this iteration, I think by the director. If I remember correctly, I have an article about it up on Horner's Corner. I can always share that with you if you want that to go out. 

Kat Koppett: We'll put it in our show notes. That would be great. 

John Register: I love that, yeah, one of my differentiators. When I'm speaking, I'm really talking about that second phase of the change that's thrust upon you and you cannot go back to the way it used to be. It's an impossibility, right, an amputation of a leg. You don't get your leg back. So that's the change I'm really talking into. Ruth is talking about, she agrees with what you're saying, so you have a fan out there already. 

Amy Horner: Thank you, Ruth. 

John Register: When you look at change. I mean we met when I was in front of another organization that was shifting, was changing. We had lost at least 14 people from headcount. I was asked to come in as an interim in this position, not as CEO and then to an acting CEO and it was a battle. It was tough and part of that was we had to get the finances in control. So one of your colleagues was working with us to help us do that. When you're looking at change and helping from the organizational standpoint now, how are you walking somebody or person, a group, through that transition when stuff is coming at them so fast and they don't know, possibly, which way is up? 

Amy Horner: Yeah, absolutely. I think the first place I step as a leader is that if we're calm, if I'm calm, they're calm. Right, if we as leaders are calm, the people that are looking to us for you know, as a role model for behavioral cues, they're calm as well. And then I think, for the situation and similar situations like what you're describing, John, you're not going to get through it all at once, and so trying to avoid that results orientation, frenetic pace that's going to burn you out. Taking a look at, we have this long list of things to do, right, this big set of responsibilities. Let's prioritize them and let's prioritize them in pieces. So once we get done with piece one, we can celebrate that milestone and feel good about it and gain momentum when we're working into piece two, right?

We're also focused on going from here over to here. We're not celebrating those stops along the way right? When we get to stop number one, we immediately stress out about stop number two. Slow down, have a cupcake, throw some confetti, whatever you need to do. But make sure that you look back and say, okay, we cleared. How many hurdles are in the 300 meter hurdles, John? 

John Register: And the three of them. They're eight in a three meter hurdle race 10 in the four meter race. 

Amy Horner: Fantastic. So if we have eight milestones, let's celebrate that we successfully got over the first one. And I think that momentum is critically important really for motivation. You need to get people motivated to go all the way from the starting line to the finish line. I love analogies. Kat has caught on. I really love sports analogies because it's a good visual cue for a lot of people and it's something that, you know, sports is typically such a positive experience for people or at least watching others do sport is a positive experience for people and so that you know, those analogies and those visuals I think are always helpful. 

Kat Koppett: You know what I love about the one of the reasons that I think sports analogies are so great and why people enjoy sports is because there's structure there, right? There's a way of when you just said, oh, there are these eight hurdles, we know how many there are. Every time we run this race we can name them. It makes me think about one of the things that is hard about change is the not knowing, not only like I'm in this new place now and that feels uncomfortable, but also I don't quite know like what, where are the hurdles? What are they going to be? How do I plan out from vision, from where I am here to what are the steps that are going to get me where I want to go? I imagine you, as a leader, have thoughts about how to design. We sort of have to design our own game. 

Amy Horner: Yes, yes, and that's very true. Sports have rules. Some of them have too many rules, some of them have confusing rules, but there are rules. I really dislike the term get comfortable being uncomfortable, because by definition that's actually impossible if you think about the words. So I use the term get comfortable in ambiguity, or get comfortable navigating unknown, the unknown, because that's really what you're doing every day. But one of the things that we all had in common and all of our listeners have in common when we woke up this morning or whatever morning you're watching this, is you have zero idea what's going to happen between now and when your head hits the pillow tonight. You have no idea. So you're actually navigating ambiguity or unknown every single day. I think people don't give themselves enough credit for how good they are at it and how much fun it can be to not have that strict set of rules and to enjoy it and figure it out right. We figure things out as we go. I mean, Kat, to answer your question, a process that is too rigid becomes brittle and brittle things break right. So let's embrace the unknown and kind of the fluidity that comes with that as we move from the starting line across our eight hurdles over to the finish line. 

John Register: You're speaking Kat's language. I've been talking to Kat. You're getting my spot. Would you like to hang up when Kat? 

Amy Horner: and I can just take it from here. 

John Register: So, Kat, yes, because I could see her jumping right now. It's just because you just sparked her mind. We've been talking for a long time and I know when she's lit up. So, yeah, Kat, go ahead and ask another question, because I know you're all right. 

Kat Koppett: I mean, I think that what I love most about what you just said is that we're actually doing this all the time, right All the time. Sometimes we say we don't wake up with a script for the day next to our bedside table and then you paired it with and that means we're actually really good at it. I think that change gets a bad rap and our capacity to embrace and adapt to change, navigate it gets a bad rap. So I don't know, do you have tips about how to tap into our innate capacity to do that? 

Amy Horner: Yeah, I think that when we pursue our own change, when we create that script, that path, that destiny to a destination, we do start to build our change muscle and so I think, the more that people can say I'm currently at step A, I'd like to get to E, I need to do B, C, d, those were the right letters, right, John? I nailed that one through five, easy for all of us to say. The more you flex your change muscle and find yourself in control or dictating change, I think, the better you're going to be in that daily ambiguity and in that daily fluidity, because now you have confidence, right, you're going to show up and think, all right, this really unpredicted thing has happened to me, but I know that I can get through it, or that I can lead through it, and that I can succeed through it. Kat and I were talking kind of in the green room right when I was backstage, while our microphones were still working, before that little blip that we had. But you know about that exact topic and, Kat, I would throw that a little bit back to you just for your thoughts. 

Kat Koppett: Well, one of the reasons that John and I are here together, coming from the sports world, performance world and the theater world, is because this idea of thinking about feeling comfortable with ambiguity, responding in the moment, paying attention, building with things these are muscles. We can think of them as muscles that we exercise and train. Improvisers have a billion exercises that are about that and mindsets, but they're very similar to the way an athlete trains for whatever they're doing. And it strikes me that we just said sports are a great analogy because they have all these rules. But it's also true that you've trained a certain set of skills but you don't actually know what's gonna happen in a game. I mean, I guess if you're doing a long jump or a hurdle, you have a little bit more control of everything, but if I'm playing baseball, football, like, I have no idea what's actually gonna happen In the moment. I just know sort of what I intend and what my goal is like what my skills are and what my goals are. 

Amy Horner: Right, and I like that. And you're correct you have to train to be prepared for what you think may happen, or something similar to what you think may happen. So then, what does happen? I just wrote down I love this phrase responding in the moment, I'm going to challenge myself to use that somewhere today. 

Kat Koppett: Thank you. You're doing a great job today, so far right here. 

John Register: You know, this is really interesting because when I'm doing keynotes and I'll give an action step by 10 o'clock tomorrow, whatever it is that you think you need to do, take one action step towards it. So I'm prescribing an action, an activity, to the person to take the action to do it, and linking this with the fun of what can come from it. I just don't think we make that connection that I'm in control of how I'm going to show up in that moment and those that take I call them the one percenters, the one percent that actually take the action. Some of the things I get back because I ask them to tell me what the process was like, that's all, that's my only cue and write to me, right, write an email, what the process was like and I get books I'm talking about paragraphs and stuff and it's beautiful of what people have discovered. I'm like sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm weeping because they share some deep things that they were thinking about but they never would have done it had they not taken that cue. And then I think about the 99% of those that don't do it and are just stuck in their routine and it's not so much that they're stuck in the routine. Where my concern is that your analogy of the tree being brittle and not bending when something does happen and snaps and breaks. 

Amy Horner: Catastrophic. It's catastrophic because we're so tightly grabbing onto whatever it was. We joked about creative accounting. If you're watching this, creative accounting is bad. Creativity as an accountant in strategy good, but in your books, not advisable. But what you're talking about, John, with a 1%, is what I would refer to as creative discovery. And I do think that when, as leaders, if we have someone that we see is kind of stuck, I think a lot of people kind of get stuck in that path and they dig that path or that trench so deeply that they can't see up over the other sides right, and they may not even know that they're in the trench. And so, by challenging them, I like to say to people what are we doing and why are we doing it? So back to a growth strategy that a lot of organizations have. Most organizations are going to know why they want a growth strategy, but what are we doing to execute that? How long have we been doing it that way? Just because it's been successful for a long period of time doesn't mean that we either couldn't be more successful in the way we're doing it or that we will be successful doing it that way in the future, because things do change. So, having that creative discovery and giving people the time. Take two hours today, right, clean your head, sit down with a blank slate, get into that deep work mode and see how you would approach it with fresh eyes. Right, if you were a consultant coming into this organization and you weren't the person responsible for executing whatever you are responsible for executing, how might you advise yourself to do it a little bit differently? And because people are so immersed in it and they're used to it, right to y'all's point, kind of going through the motions? But if you challenge people to take that step back, oftentimes because they are so close to it, their brain has given them a way to do it a little bit differently. They just haven't necessarily had the chance or the motivation to explore that. 

John Register: There's a. I was up bleary-eyed at three o'clock in the morning. A friend of mine from Dubai asked me to speak to his client leadership team and one of the activities I did I don't know if it's going to work enough, because I'm like halfway around the world. This is what it's actually work. So I went through a third party, him, to help me do this and it's I call it, go faster. And the game is everybody's in a circle, they pass an object around it's usually a bean bag, and they and then I time it, you know. So I just at first I don't time right, I just, I just this, this establish a pattern. And then, once the pattern is established, then I ask, I invite them to go as fast as they can. And then, once they have established the first baseline maybe it's 15 seconds that they get through. I say you know what, I think you can go a little bit faster. And so then they'll think then they just pass it faster, right, let's just do that because there's a race now. And then they get down from 15 seconds to maybe 12 seconds. I say you can go faster. And if you keep on saying that the creativity there's a, there's a, there's a kind of a line that the brain just stops with everything that is normal or that is routine, that's obvious, and begins the creativity to where? I've seen people go from that 15 seconds down to a little bit under one and it was under one because I couldn't stop my stopwatch Right. 

Amy Horner: That that concept we know. As you're thinking that, I feel like, then the culture of that team full of people also bubbles to the surface. Is there innovation that's happening in between the members? Are they actively talking about a way to do something very simple, faster, right, because that's the challenge? Are they motivating and supporting one another as the beanbag is being passed around? Are they critical of one another because someone isn't doing it fast enough? You know there are probably several other things, but those three things came to mind as you're describing that scenario, because, as that culture bubbles to the surface, then maybe you're also a little bit better able to identify a place where there's a gap or a weakness or a strength that you can build on. But obviously the gap or the weakness is needs to be addressed. 

John Register: Absolutely. All those things will be revealed when stress is put on a sit, in a situation, and so you'll see where we go to, where our breaking point is for each one of us, and then we can learn and maybe push a bit further. Our characters revealed during our times of testing we don't get it before or after it's revealed in that time. Then we can learn from it afterwards, of course. Fantastic Kat says and what a great keynote speaker. So I'm sure she's talking about you, Amy, because you're a fantastic keynote speaker and Kat is a really good speaker. You're better Looking just the same about me, ruth. Thank you, love it. 

Kat Koppett: I'm noting in your game, John, and also the metaphor you used a minute ago, Amy, in terms of being and like digging a trench and then being it and not being able to see over the walls. This idea of like, what is? What are we unaware of? What are the assumptions we're making in a situation? What are we blind to? What's the water we're swimming in that we don't even know about, because it's water and we're fish? I'm curious for both of you. I mean, John, you can reveal maybe what happens in the game, but how are some ways that you help people see opportunity, opportunity to move outside of there, habitual ways of being or notice things that they might not be paying attention to? 

John Register: So for me, in that specific game, I don't have to say much because they see it, it's a self-discovery. I can just maybe prompt it with a very simple question of how does this relate to your work? That's all the prompting that. If I even need to do that, that's needed Because people, they see man, we can do this different. Actually called an audible with a group of hospitality industry folks a couple days ago in another place and I was doing I didn't do this activity, but I did something that was like it and what was coming up was I couldn't get them to shift because they're I'll rewind it they were being, they're being done, the season's coming up, they're about to go into, they're in, you know, the resort area and all these people that do good in life, the kind of the rich folks that are going to kind of come in and have all this money and they start dumping on the staff. So they do all this, they do all this positive stuff in the community, but then they come in on the staff and they're demanding. And so how do you, how do you lead in that? What can we do different? Maybe preempt some things, but I don't want to give them those answers or what I'm thinking about, because I'm not a hospitality person in that like they are. You know, I'm in the industry but I'm not of the industry like that. So I wanted them to come up with it and they came up with some amazing responses. So I did kind of this anarchist guide to being the worst guest ever and what would the chapters be. And so they came up quickly with that, and so then we could, we could flip it and say what can we do to make the guest experience even better, so happy? I would love to hear your thoughts, Amy. 

Amy Horner: I have zero experience in the hospitality industry other than potentially as a guest A good guest, you know. I do think that that you know what you're describing and you're kind of starting with a beanbag and then this manifesto of how to be the worst guest ever really goes back to you know what are we doing and why are we doing it Right. And I think when you challenge people to think about it that way, it doesn't come off like you're criticizing the approach. There's a second you criticize the approach and you criticize someone. You injure something about them, be it their ego, their self-worth, how much they like you, dozens of other things. But so by challenging them to think through something that they do regularly, if not daily, you know you're both right. They will come up with different ways to approach it, and usually that different way is going to be a better solution than what they've applied in the past, or at least different right. 

Kat Koppett: So at least it will open up something, some new insight or some new opportunity. I like to say different is better than better. 

Amy Horner: Ooh, say more about that I love that. 

Kat Koppett: Yeah, I like that it's something resonating with that. 

Amy Horner: Well, when you're different than your competition, that becomes part of your brand and your value proposition. So when we're different, we can talk about Southwest. We all should know that story. I hope I know that you two know it. I hope that all of our audience knows it. Southwest wanted to do more than fly airplanes and connect people from departure to destination. Southwest wanted flying to be an experience and they came in and they still are in some ways different than what is the standard course of action for their competition in the industry and the people that are in the industry. They're not the same, they're different from the competition in the industry and the people who fly Southwest. That's a cult, that's practically a cult like following. They identify with the brand now because the brand is different and they identify with the fun or you give them some control over where they're seating, because you get to pick your own seat, like in real time and not in your computer screen when you make your reservation. And they have maintained that differentiation still today through everything the airline industry has gone through in the last 30 years, but certainly the last four, and so different oftentimes is better than better. 

John Register: You know it's fascinating my wife, of course, she works for the company and they were digging even deeper into that story. They only had three planes and they were trying to figure out a way to dominate this, this market. And because they knew they wanted to kind of lower the cost of air travel, make it open for everybody, so they had to. They had to think different. Right, there was a, and they didn't want to use a whole bunch of marketing dollars to take away from the planes. They want to put the plane in 10 minutes is what they want to do so they could keep those planes in the air moving, moving people. And I thought what was fascinating is they said we are going to be like Uber customer service. Right, we're just going to go ballistic on the customer service. And that has kind of maintained itself even through. And I think that's the reason why I'm looking at the culture that's there, because it is, it is like the family, the family. When I first went flying with them, you know, as a non rev, with my wife's benefit, I was just testing stuff, right, I was trying to figure out how the system work because it wasn't like the system I knew and I am from the gate agent to the booking agent, to the flight attendants, the pilots to the baggage claim, everyone at one point said to me welcome to the family. It was all the way through the company. And I find that, you know, when tragedy hits or sort of a hard thing, like last year when the whole system went down right and people were stranded and I guess we're coming in off without, you know, being prompted to to help their cohorts out, to sort bags, to get things ready to, to, what can I do to get the to my job, to get the contracts for trucks, to get, you know, baggage to people? And a culture like that you just can't teach that. That has to be trained in the system of helping your teammate win. And that goes back to what you do all the time cat and improv. You want to make the other person win and be successful. 

Kat Koppett: Yeah, the way we say focus on your partner, make your partner look good, delight your partner and those are all phrases we use. And it reminds me of sort of where we started today, Amy, when we were talking about finding those opportunities to celebrate, especially the leader, to create a culture where you're not waiting you know it's not always like the next goal or you're waiting until you get to some big final thing but just along the way, creating an environment where people feel appreciated and seen and valued. 

Amy Horner: Right and changes constant to your point on that it doesn't end. You don't get to a point and say, all right, we're done. Right, there is. There's truly no end to the game. And so, yeah, celebrating throughout versus thinking you're going to have some final destination. There really is not a final destination, yeah. 

John Register: No, it's, it's, it's. That's the. That's the end of my model, right? I'm laughing because of what I, what I, share in the monkey notes. It's like I say then you get to the reward, but the reward's not a destination, it's a plateau for the next growth. 

Amy Horner: No, then you go back to the beginning, right, that's a. 

John Register: Or you or you expand and you see where somebody else is or but it, but you're, but you would win the silver when the silver medal, right, you win the medal. But that was what 24 years ago, almost right now, 23 years ago. So 23 years ago. You have that I'm not living in Sydney, Australia, with my medal. You know, right there you continue to grow, you continue to elevate, you continue to increase in knowledge and wisdom, hopefully. 

Amy Horner: John, much like you, every time I see that clip I think you're going to win. Me too, Me too. 

John Register: I play, I play a clip, everybody in my presentation of winning the silver medal, and everybody's on their own, as they know, I've won silver, but they're on the edge and I'm there too. What's going to happen? What's? 

Kat Koppett: going to happen. It'll be different this time. It'll be different. There is never an end, but we are sort of probably coming to the pause of this conversation, John, don't you think we cannot do that unless we play a game? So in the background, as we've been talking, I've been thinking about what game should we play. And here's what. I think you did a very good job with the alphabet, Amy. You did a, b, c, d, e and you even did it out of order. So I know you're an expert, so I think we should. One of the key sort of foundational forever games and improv is called the alphabet game, and the way it works is just the next person who speaks has to start their line of dialogue, their sentence, with the next letter of the alphabet. So we'll just have a conversation. We can just keep talking. We can have a topic. If we want to get and, and I'll start with a, and then I don't know, let's go in this order. Then, Amy, you can say something with be done, you can say something with see, and we'll just keep going until we get to the end of the alphabet, right? So what do we want to talk about? Do we want to have a topic to talk about? 

John Register: Thanks, give me, it's coming up right. 

Kat Koppett: I think one of my family is going to gather this year at my cousin Paul's house. He does a. He's an incredible cook. 

Amy Horner: Better believe that's going to be an amazing experience. 

John Register: Could you cook a turkey, or could you cook a ham? 

Kat Koppett: I don't underestimate the power of cooking many different dishes for many different people. I think you shouldn't choose and you should do both. 

Amy Horner: Everybody's palette is different. 

John Register: For instance, I like to have sweet potato pie where others like pumpkin pie. 

Kat Koppett: Good point. This is a bone of contention in a lot of houses is like which is the right pie, pumpkin or sweet potato? 

Amy Horner: However, we should be cognizant of not fighting on holidays, especially over silly things such as what kind of pie we're going to eat. 

John Register: If your pie is pumpkin, I don't know what you're thinking about, because sweet potato is the pie of choice. 

Kat Koppett: Just like we did with the ham and the turkey. Maybe we have both. 

Amy Horner: I just said please don't be combative and fight with your relatives over holiday food preferences. 

John Register: Let me tell you,Amy, I'm just, I'm just there right now. You've taken me to a different level, because this is the thing that we may want to talk a little bit further about. 

Kat Koppett: My mom would have agreed with you, Amy. She didn't like arguing at the Thanksgiving table. 

Amy Horner: I mean, should we do our best to overcome arguments, but we should be grateful for the people we surround ourselves with, try to ignore the temptation of Black Friday and, of course, focus on the nonprofits we can support. 

John Register: on giving Tuesday Obviously, that is a great way to shift the conversation and make it feel that we're all connected and moving forward. 

Kat Koppett: People should all follow your advice, Amy, I agree. 

Amy Horner: You Whoo. All right, I can't say I quite agree with you. Quietly, I will humbly agree with you. 

John Register: Respecting the conversation and how we are trying to squash and regroup, maybe I can reconsider the way that I am thinking about pumpkin pie and sweet potato pie. 

Kat Koppett: So will you include a pumpkin pie at your Thanksgiving? 

Amy Horner: To be determined. 

John Register: Situationally… 

Kat Koppett: We're at U. QRSTU…

John Register: Oh, we're at U, T, ST, O U, O, oh okay, so I was wrong. I went backwards. 

Kat Koppett: You could do it backwards.

John Register: I was well, will you do a pumpkin pie. And then you said what? 

Kat Koppett: Will you do a pumpkin pie? to be determined. 

Amy Horner: I said to be determined or to be continued.

John Register: To be continued. Unless I put in an apple pie. 

Kat Koppett: Very, very good idea. Way to up the stakes. 

Amy Horner: Well, you'll have to let us know what decision you make. 

John Register: Xylophone. It's an instrument that we play every Thanksgiving. 

Kat Koppett: Yeah, you play an instrument. You could have a band while you're baking in the background.

Amy Horner: Kat, I think it's you.

Kat Koppett: I said You, You play the end, you play an instrument. You should absolutely include a xylophone and have a band while you eat your pie. We have a Z you're going to bring us home with Z.

Amy Horner: I am. Zappy! That sounds like a good time. 

Kat Koppett: Yay!

John Register: Zappy zappy. We're back to zippy, zappy, zappy. 

Kat Koppett: I know it.

John Register: But it's not even know it.

Kat Koppett: That was great. Good job, you guys. How was that? 

Amy Horner: That it was fun. There are a lot of letters in the alphabet. 

Kat Koppett: Your words. Your words say it was fun, and your tone says "I don't know?!" 

Amy Horner: I have an expressive face. 

Kat Koppett: You do what, what, I guess, my final question is, what does this have to do with change or navigating, ambiguity or anything else that we talked about today? 

Amy Horner: Well I think we did just navigate ambiguity. We had no way of knowing what the person ahead of us was going to say. However, we were still restricted and how we could respond, because there were some rules that were out there. 

Kat Koppett: Yeah. 

Amy Horner: And I do think that that's a nice parallel to what we've been talking about, which is how we do navigate change. 

John Register: Brilliant, and you also helped a person Check this out. Thank you so much. I wanted to just honor you today for what you shared so helpful today. Yes, I would agree, because these two women are just brilliant on what they do. So, as you get ready for Monday coming up, we are with you and we want to see you succeed 100% and keep on telling more folks about this. We live for this. It's, what you said is why we do the show, why we can't not meet every Saturday morning during the pandemic, just so that we could figure out ways to help people and bring an Amy to this conversation today, and her wisdom was just 100% fantastic. And then Ruth, thank you. Yes, that was awesome. Could be stressful. Try that game at the office, that'd be fantastic as well. And then thank you to Jolee and to for that again, amazing. I want to just honor all y'all that we're on today and we have come to another end of our show and I'm so sad because this was a great time together. If you are looking for another way to shift your performance, join us on Performance Shift. We are on the Apple podcast and any place where your podcast are. And as we wrap up today. Are there any last thoughts that you all have? 

Kat Koppett: I've had a wonderful time and I look forward to whatever comes next.

Amy Horner: And I will say thank you for having me on, I had a great experience and I am a fan of this show. Right, I'm a long time listener, first time caller, basically here. So I figured if I, if I showed up enough and commented during like these people are that you would you would feel the manifestation I was sending out there to have me on So I'm happy that that has worked. 

Kat Koppett: So there's a prompt, right? Let us know if you want to be a guest and you have something to talk about.

John Register: That's right. If you want to be a guest, shoot us a, shoot us a note. And I don't know how you can shoot us a note on the, where we do, we have a place up there? Like on the maybe it's on the podcast channel. 

Kat Koppett: They could contact you on LinkedIn. I think our emails are also in the podcast.  

John Register: Or suggest us somebody you know session, suggest us somebody. So for that we'll say go forth and inspire your world goes your command. Fourth is your direction. Inspire is your vocation. You're, because only you can do this work in the world, because you do this work in your sphere of influence. We'll see you next time on another episode of Performance Shift. Bye for now.